A Conversation with: TEEKS

Photo Credit: Danni Bishara

This soul-baring Māori artist really needs no introduction. The world quickly came to know of TEEKS’ magical, vocal brilliance with the release of his first EP “The Grapefruit Skies”, which has now accumulated almost 15 million streams on Spotify alone. After being featured in US Vogue last year, the Silver Scroll-nominated and Aotearoa Music Award-winner has most recently released his debut album “Something to Feel”.

We’d love to know a little bit about your musical journey so far from when you first started singing and creating music!

TEEKS: Growing up as a kid, I was always surrounded by music and singing. Being Māori, I think performance and music is inherent in our culture.

I went to practice with my parents because they were in a group when I was quite young so I would go along with them to training. And eventually, in school I joined kapa haka as well. It was probably in high school I kinda figured out that I wanted to pursue music as a career. I was very shy as a kid [laughs]. And I never sung openly in front of anyone, not even my own family unless I was in a group. So playing music in school was a big part of getting comfortable and becoming confident. I started putting myself in that space a little bit more joining the band with my friend and that kind of was a turning point. We started entering competitions like Smoke Free Rock Quest and Pasifika Beats and that's when I realised that I wanted to do it properly.

I'd lived up north for most of my life in a rural town, you know, coastal township, small communities. If I wanted to do something, I had to move away so I moved up to Auckland. I was at UNITEC for two years, did a diploma, and that kind of was the beginning I suppose of my journey.

Starting with your critically acclaimed debut EP, “Grapefruit Skies” is such a remarkable and powerful collection of songs, with strong themes of love and loss. What were your main highlights working on this EP and what was the process of creating it like? 

TEEKS: Going to New York to record was quite a big deal for me because I was quite young still. I was fresh out of uni, in 2015. Then I went overseas and recorded some songs that I’d written - it was very surreal. I don't think you can picture or envision that happening at that age, so it was quite reassuring as an artist. I was still quite young and figuring out my sound but I was writing songs.

I did a Māori mentor programme before going to New York City in 2014, for a period of three or four weekends. I was mentored by prolific artists in the Māori music community - like Maisey Rika, Tama Waipara and Seth Haapu and people that I had looked up to growing up as a kid. They were very supportive of me and what I was doing, and they knew that I could do something. Beyond the programme itself, they kept close contact with me and made sure that I had as much guidance as they could offer. And Tama, he was one who organised the trip to New York and he linked me with the producer there, Jeremy Most. So that’s kind of how it all started.

In terms of getting my first project out, I had written songs and then Tama knew that I had ideas so I sent over just voice memos - at that point I didn't have any demos. And then with Jeremy, just going back and forth over email before I went over and then went there, recorded, came home [laughs]. 

Incredible - and you had no idea what it would turn into!

TEEKS: No, yeah, just on a whim. I actually didn't know what I was gonna do after that point [laughs], ‘cause I had 2 songs that I had recorded in New York and now what? Now what do I do? Especially at that age, I wanted to do things quite quickly [laughs]. But I didn't have a solid enough plan or foundation or team yet, so I'm glad that I waited.

I eventually found management who helped me establish a plan and help me gather enough resources to finish the rest of the project so I recorded the last two songs here at The Lab Studio. Got a couple friends to come and help with that project and so I finished it and made it into something more than two songs - now it’s an EP. And then released that out into the world and that was received pretty well.

“I had no expectations and I didn't really know what was going to happen. It was authentic as can be. I was just being myself. I think from that point to now, I've done so much growing and maturing. Now I feel like I'm in a place I really know who I am as an artist and I know what I want to sound like and the songs I want to write.”

Photo Credit: Danni Bishara

From there, you released your two spectacular EPs “I” and “II” before finally releasing your album “Something To Feel”. Can you tell us about the concepts of your EPs and what that means to you? 

TEEKS: Breaking up the album was appealing to me because it’s something that's been in the back of my mind for a long time, even before making the album. The album is so diverse I feel like, musically. I wanted to make sure that each song was heard properly. It’s more digestible that way, and I didn’t want any songs to get lost. So I broke it up into three groups of four, and let people sit with that for a couple months, and they’ll get to know the songs intimately.

Times were so uncertain, and we weren't really sure what was gonna happen and how people were listening to music, given COVID and everyone was stuck at home. I think it was good that we had that space - there was a bit of stillness that I think was necessary for the world to give attention to the right things. I’m glad that we waited, and that we decided to put it out when we did. I’m a big believer that everything happens for a reason and I have trust in the process.

I didn't name the parts externally, like on Spotify or Apple Music. It was just more a conceptual thing that I mainly wanted to make sure I got across to the team so that they understood. I named the first part, the invitation. For me, it was like inviting people into the project, the bigger story of the album, but it's only one piece of the puzzle. A big part of the overall theme of the album is inviting people to be in touch with their feelings, and emotions and giving people permission to do so.

Then part two, “the surrender” was surrendering to that process of vulnerability, being okay with going through that and allowing that growth and maturity to take place.

And in the final part, “the reveal” is everything amalgamated and the paths come together to make one project, one album. So it's like the revelation. You’ve been through that transformation, and then you’re coming out as a new person almost. You’ve been through this metamorphosis and you have a new understanding of life, the way that you see the world and the way that you operate internally. I think that was the basis of what I was trying to tell, the story. I think it's been cool to see that journey and how people have responded to it over the period of six or seven months - it’s been a slow unravelling. 

Amazing! What themes did you delve into in this album, and what were the most important things you discovered through this cathartic album-making process? 

TEEKS: It says it in the title and that's why I named the album “Something To Feel”. I wanted to name it something, and what I try to achieve in the songwriting as well, that’s saying less but it means so much more. I think that title in itself is quite profound, even though it's only three words. People will look at it and be like “what does that mean?”. It opens up a whole another door of interpretation I suppose for people to read it. 

Over the past couple of years in the process of making the record, I feel like I've grown and matured so much as an artist, but also as a person, as a human being. The whole being more comfortable with being in touch with your feelings, and being expressive and understanding the healing power that comes with being able to do that, because it's important to know. Most of our lives we grow up and are taught as guys a distorted perception of what it means to be a man or the definition of masculinity is like “don't cry”, “be tough”, “don’t express yourself”. So I guess the big part of the journey has been like, unlearning that. Coming to a realisation that it’s actually counterintuitive, and it’s not the way we should be operating because it’s unhealthy.

I'm passionate about my people, and I know that we're over-represented in so many different statistics for mental health. Suicide is one of them, especially Māori men in particular. And for me, it's just being part of trying to change the narrative, and trying to change the way that we operate. It's been cool because it's been almost a reclamation, or reinstatement of traditional world views from an indigenous perspective. Acknowledging your feelings is an important thing, and to understand the power, strength in vulnerability and what that can do for you as a person. And then, pushing back at the more westernised kind of notions of masculinity and what that represents. That's kind of like the false reality of what it means to be a man, a “macho man”. Yeah I think it’s important, I don't think it's a new thing. We're progressing, we're getting there but baby steps. People are questioning things more which is great.

Beyond that, as an artist, as a songwriter, I think it's necessary to be able to let yourself be vulnerable because you can tap into those emotions and those feelings and if you wanna write from an authentic place, you need to be able to get into that space. Normalising that, you know?

And I think, an important thing to note, and what I've been sometimes forgetting to mention is, it's not just about masculinity, but it's acknowledging the feminine as well because it's about balance. It’s something to be conscious of. Acknowledging that we carry both of those energies inside ourself and that's a Māori worldview too - your mother and your father. So balance and duality.

How has Māori culture and te reo guided you when creating music? 

TEEKS: I think being Māori and living in Aotearoa, there’s always a duality because you're walking in two different worlds. The Māori world, the world that you’ve been raised in, and you have the Western world which is predominantly the world that we live in, and trying to navigate both sides of that and who you are.

With everything that I do, I try to operate from a Māori point of view and perspective, whether it's business decisions or stuff that we do internally, even strategically. Trying to tie back to Māori core values that we carry, and guiding principles that we carry in our culture. Even the way that we work with people and interact with people - that type of thing is really important to me. And I think artistically, definitely, no doubt. Performance is like an inherent part of who I am because of my culture and our tradition. That's how we tell stories, and that’s how we pass down knowledge so it's natural for me to tell stories that way. Being able to access all of that and know that that's where I come from, I think that's been a big part of it.

“Te reo Māori being my first language, I feel lucky and I feel like it’s an advantage being able to have two paradigms of thinking. Te reo Māori is very poetic and metaphoric. I feel like I could carry a lot of that and translate it into the way that I write songs in English. There are a lot of things that can crossover in the Western world.”

Photo Credit: Danni Bishara

Are there a lot of concepts in Māori that don’t necessarily have an English word or exact translation, making it difficult to describe and interpret?

TEEKS: Yeah that’s exactly right - you can’t say something in Māori and expect it to translate the same in English because it doesn't. It's like a completely different outlook on life and way of thinking as well.

Most of the songs I write are in English. I mean, I have written songs in te reo Māori before - I'm just writing whatever comes out. At the moment it’s in English and I feel like I can express myself the best way that I can. I'm on my journey in terms of my language and getting to a confident place in te reo Māori. Just going with the flow.

Congrats on selling out your Auckland show at The Civic, as well as your Christchurch show! What are you looking forward to most for your upcoming nationwide tour?

TEEKS: Performing is my favourite part. I’m lucky that I live in New Zealand and that I can still go on tour, I feel very fortunate. I'm excited just to be in front of people and play the album. I did a small run of shows in December, the more intimate shows. The format was more stripped back so it was just piano and the string quartet - it was special. This tour is going to be a step up in terms of the format. Now I’m gonna have the full band, the quartet as well, so it's gonna be quite a big production, and the first opportunity for me to really translate the songs on the album to the stage.

I'm looking forward to it, and the venues too - they’re quite special, like The Civic. They’re mostly all theatres so I think it will be pretty beautiful and I know there’s heaps of potential in the space that we can create and the experience that we can bring to the audience. I've got a lot of work to do but I'm looking forward to it [laughs].

Who are your biggest inspirations in music?

TEEKS: Yeah that’s a hard one - I’m so bad at answering these type of questions just because there are so many people I feel like I’m influenced by! [laughs]. I've got quite an eclectic taste in music. The Māori modern music community, like I was talking about before, just having them occupy those spaces and looking up to them as a kid. Maisey Rika, listening to her music.

Bob Marley - my dad played a lot of Bob Marley when I was growing up to the point that I was just sick of it [laughs]. But now, I've grown to appreciate it, I'm glad that I had that. The stories and the messages that he’s writing about are important.

Marvin Gaye is probably one of my favourite artists of all time. Lauryn Hill, Alicia Keys, D'Angelo. Getting into neo-soul, I didn’t really discover it until after high school and it kind of blew my mind in terms of the possibilities of what you could do melodically and harmonically. Aretha. The Eagles. Bob Dylan - just the songwriting, you know.

I’m also a big Adele fan. Her “21” album was one of the first physical albums that I bought - I was still at school then when that came out. I remember playing that and I was like “woah” - that style of music and storytelling wasn't something that I was necessarily prone to hearing prior to that and when I heard it I thought “this is crazy”.

Photo Credit: Frances Carter

Who are some of your favourite NZ artists right now and are there any songs in particular that you especially love or connect with?

TEEKS: Currently, Church & AP I'm a big fan of. They're crazy and everything that they’ve put out is just crazy good. SWIDT. Melodownz. Nadia Reid. Tiny Ruins. There’s so many. 

Dallas Tamaira from Fat Freddy’s - “Spider” is so good aye! I was listening to it on repeat for the past couple of days over the weekend. Such a good song.

What do you love most about living in New Zealand? Do you have any favourite places to travel to or local spots to visit? 

TEEKS: My favourite place in the world is Hokianga. It’s very majestic and especially being Māori, I think you have a strong sense of belonging and identify strongly with tribal lands, where your whakapapa and people come from so it's always gonna hold a special place in your heart and always gonna be pulled back there. So Hokianga is one place, definitely. My mum’s from Tauranga so it’s the same feeling for home on that side of my family.

I love the fact that NZ is so small. It can be a good thing and a bad thing [laughs]. I love the fact that everyone knows each other, we’re quite tight knit. Usually, everyone knows what's going on - if you’ve got something happening, the people know about it. I love that you don't have to travel far get to the water. Just the landscape itself, I love living here. I love being Māori, the culture - I love my people.

I've been to a fair share of places but I need to explore them more, especially the South Island. I'm going to spend some time there - it’s on my to-do list. We're very lucky to live here.

What are some of the biggest lessons you’ve learnt in your career so far, and what advice do you have for new artists out there?

TEEKS: I think the biggest thing that I’ve taken away over the past couple of years has been trusting in yourself. Trusting in your own instincts as an artist, and as a person first and foremost. You have so many opinions and so many people that are trying to be helpful, and people will have their ideas and thoughts on certain things, but I think if you just learn to just trust yourself. I think that's going to get you so much further than anything. If you have a clear vision and you know your vision and you just get everyone else to follow you, I think that's the most important thing. Follow your vision.

Getting out of your own way too is probably the other thing. I think our biggest obstacles are ourselves. Especially being Māori I think, it’s ingrained in humility. It's a cultural thing and I think it's almost self sabotaging. Being humble is good, to an extent, but I think you have to be careful not to let it consume you and stop you from doing things. Not being too scared to take risks or put yourself in uncomfortable situations.

No one else is gonna believe in you if you can't believe in yourself. You have to have a strong sense of knowing that you’re gonna do something and you’ll just do anything to make it happen.

You can always learn along the way, and I've still got so much more to learn and growing to do - it’s all part of the journey. I think as long as I keep that in mind, that vision.

Thank you so much TEEKS for such an incredible and inspiring conversation! Make sure you keep up with him on Instagram, Facebook, Spotify & Apple Music.